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	<title>Comments on: UK, Malaysia = Irrelevant Senates?</title>
	<link>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/</link>
	<description>Cyrix's Litany On Life, 'presently-non-existent' Love and Politics</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: johnleemk</title>
		<link>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-96</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-96</guid>
					<description>Oh, you wanted a breakdown by party. They don't have it, then. Only a breakdown by mode of appointment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oh, you wanted a breakdown by party. They don&#8217;t have it, then. Only a breakdown by mode of appointment.
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		<title>by: cyrix</title>
		<link>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-95</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-95</guid>
					<description>johnleemk: I could only find the rules and procedures of the Senate, not the stats breakdown according to parties. If you've seen it, could you please gimme the link? Thanx!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>johnleemk: I could only find the rules and procedures of the Senate, not the stats breakdown according to parties. If you&#8217;ve seen it, could you please gimme the link? Thanx!
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		<title>by: johnleemk</title>
		<link>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-94</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-94</guid>
					<description>cyrix:
As I said, Wikipedia has the breakdown. I'm not sure if direct election of Senators would be the way to go - Germany's system makes sense, as Rajan points out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>cyrix:<br />
As I said, Wikipedia has the breakdown. I&#8217;m not sure if direct election of Senators would be the way to go - Germany&#8217;s system makes sense, as Rajan points out.
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		<title>by: cyrix</title>
		<link>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-93</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-93</guid>
					<description>The trouble with Malaysia is that it's very hard to get stats on these things.

However, I did find a very interesting press statement by Lim Kit Siang here: http://www.dapmalaysia.org/all-archive/English/2004/may04/lks/lks3036.htm

which talks about stuff that's almost similar to what I've written. He wants senators to be directly voted by the public as well.

According to what I've managed to find, it would seem that the M'sian Senate has failed utterly. It has now become a political dumping ground for BN politicians who have failed to get elected into the HoR (since Senators can also hold ministrial posts, ie: M'sia's last Edu Minister was a Senator). It is overwhelmingly dominated by BN members. Senators from the opposition, intellectuals, and minorities are almost non-existent there.

If anybody has the M'sian Senate composition, could you please share it with me here? I'm very interested to see how badly it is being abused by BN these days :) Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The trouble with Malaysia is that it&#8217;s very hard to get stats on these things.</p>
	<p>However, I did find a very interesting press statement by Lim Kit Siang here: <a >http://www.dapmalaysia.org/all-archive/English/2004/may04/lks/lks3036.htm</a></p>
	<p>which talks about stuff that&#8217;s almost similar to what I&#8217;ve written. He wants senators to be directly voted by the public as well.</p>
	<p>According to what I&#8217;ve managed to find, it would seem that the M&#8217;sian Senate has failed utterly. It has now become a political dumping ground for BN politicians who have failed to get elected into the HoR (since Senators can also hold ministrial posts, ie: M&#8217;sia&#8217;s last Edu Minister was a Senator). It is overwhelmingly dominated by BN members. Senators from the opposition, intellectuals, and minorities are almost non-existent there.</p>
	<p>If anybody has the M&#8217;sian Senate composition, could you please share it with me here? I&#8217;m very interested to see how badly it is being abused by BN these days <img src='http://cyrix.blogsome.com/wp-images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Thanks!
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		<title>by: cyrix</title>
		<link>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-92</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-92</guid>
					<description>jun hoe: Agreed. But that wasn't what I was suggesting. I was suggesting that the Senates in M'sia and the UK should be changed to enable the public to directly elect senators, like how we vote for our HoR members now. Like Australia's model.

Rajan R: &lt;strong&gt;&quot;On the House of Lords, actually the power to delay legislation is a powerful tool used by the Lords to squash many legislation. When the Lords vote to delay a bill, the Commons must redebate the bill. And usually, they would be too embarrassed to approve the bill again, at least in the rejected form.&quot;&lt;/strong&gt;

Lol, somehow I don't see that embarassing the BN MPs anytime soon! :P

And on that VSU thing, sure thing, you're free to support the bill. It's just that many left-wing students here thinks that this is the first step initiated by the government in its quest to introduced Australia's own UUCA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>jun hoe: Agreed. But that wasn&#8217;t what I was suggesting. I was suggesting that the Senates in M&#8217;sia and the UK should be changed to enable the public to directly elect senators, like how we vote for our HoR members now. Like Australia&#8217;s model.</p>
	<p>Rajan R: <strong>&#8220;On the House of Lords, actually the power to delay legislation is a powerful tool used by the Lords to squash many legislation. When the Lords vote to delay a bill, the Commons must redebate the bill. And usually, they would be too embarrassed to approve the bill again, at least in the rejected form.&#8221;</strong></p>
	<p>Lol, somehow I don&#8217;t see that embarassing the BN MPs anytime soon! <img src='http://cyrix.blogsome.com/wp-images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
	<p>And on that VSU thing, sure thing, you&#8217;re free to support the bill. It&#8217;s just that many left-wing students here thinks that this is the first step initiated by the government in its quest to introduced Australia&#8217;s own UUCA.
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		<title>by: Jon</title>
		<link>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-91</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-91</guid>
					<description>The Lords are there for a reason, and countless of times they have blocked ruthless legislations that were forced through the lower house. The government here has suffered many defeats over its knee jerk anti-terrorism bill by the peers. Last October the upper house tore up the Racial and Religious bill due to its implication on free speech. I am all to democraticising the upper house but right now they are (mostly) there to keep check on the government. Just last week the Law Lords rejected the use in courts, of evidence that may have been obtained through torture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The Lords are there for a reason, and countless of times they have blocked ruthless legislations that were forced through the lower house. The government here has suffered many defeats over its knee jerk anti-terrorism bill by the peers. Last October the upper house tore up the Racial and Religious bill due to its implication on free speech. I am all to democraticising the upper house but right now they are (mostly) there to keep check on the government. Just last week the Law Lords rejected the use in courts, of evidence that may have been obtained through torture.
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		<title>by: Rajan R</title>
		<link>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-90</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-90</guid>
					<description>BTW, what's wrong with the law passed by Senate? How is allowing students to choose *not* to join student unions and pay student union dues and fees something despicable and should be shunned? Freedom of association, baby!

Personally, if I study in the Commonwealth of Australia, in most universities, I probably would opt-out of joining the student union. Don't want my money, or the very least any imaginery scholarship money funding a union with activities, including political, I don't agree with, with services I would rarely, rarely use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>BTW, what&#8217;s wrong with the law passed by Senate? How is allowing students to choose *not* to join student unions and pay student union dues and fees something despicable and should be shunned? Freedom of association, baby!</p>
	<p>Personally, if I study in the Commonwealth of Australia, in most universities, I probably would opt-out of joining the student union. Don&#8217;t want my money, or the very least any imaginery scholarship money funding a union with activities, including political, I don&#8217;t agree with, with services I would rarely, rarely use.
</p>
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		<title>by: Rajan R</title>
		<link>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-89</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-89</guid>
					<description>There are two senators appointed by each state government, further two more for the federal territory by the federal government, and the rest by the Agong, under the &quot;advice&quot; of the Prime Minister.

The same ailment plagues Canada and India too; New Zealand got tired of it so for now, Parliament = House of Representatives.

On the House of Lords, actually the power to delay legislation is a powerful tool used by the Lords to squash many legislation. When the Lords vote to delay a bill, the Commons must redebate the bill. And usually, they would be too embarrassed to approve the bill again, at least in the rejected form.

I would say the German model is a rather useful compromise - their Senate (or Federal Council) is made up of state government delegates (that votes based on the direction of the state governments). Unlike in the US and Australia, those delegates cannot initiate new bills, but unlike the House of Lords, they can stop bills instead of merely delaying them.

The Germans seem to have a better model at least when it comes to federal-state relationships; state powers in America and Australia have eroded far much more than they have in Germany.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There are two senators appointed by each state government, further two more for the federal territory by the federal government, and the rest by the Agong, under the &#8220;advice&#8221; of the Prime Minister.</p>
	<p>The same ailment plagues Canada and India too; New Zealand got tired of it so for now, Parliament = House of Representatives.</p>
	<p>On the House of Lords, actually the power to delay legislation is a powerful tool used by the Lords to squash many legislation. When the Lords vote to delay a bill, the Commons must redebate the bill. And usually, they would be too embarrassed to approve the bill again, at least in the rejected form.</p>
	<p>I would say the German model is a rather useful compromise - their Senate (or Federal Council) is made up of state government delegates (that votes based on the direction of the state governments). Unlike in the US and Australia, those delegates cannot initiate new bills, but unlike the House of Lords, they can stop bills instead of merely delaying them.</p>
	<p>The Germans seem to have a better model at least when it comes to federal-state relationships; state powers in America and Australia have eroded far much more than they have in Germany.
</p>
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		<title>by: junhoe</title>
		<link>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-88</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-88</guid>
					<description>If memory serves me right, and I did take Pengajian Am in Form 6, a law passed by Dewan Rakyat will be enforced, at the latest  after 30 days if it's not sighned by the YDMM Agong. Dewan Negara can only delay the law or give suggestions, but the final say lies on Dewan Rakyat.

I don't think Dewan Negara is elected based on royalty blood, but at the discretion of the YDMM Agong upon advice. There's supposed to be 2 from each state in Malaysia, and then a few more people who represent certain interests and minority groups. 

The reason Dewan Negara is actually weaker than Dewan Rakyat is because DR is officially elected by the people, and therefore represents the voice of the people. I think this system actually makes more sense rather than giving DN more power, seeing as they were appointed rather than elected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If memory serves me right, and I did take Pengajian Am in Form 6, a law passed by Dewan Rakyat will be enforced, at the latest  after 30 days if it&#8217;s not sighned by the YDMM Agong. Dewan Negara can only delay the law or give suggestions, but the final say lies on Dewan Rakyat.</p>
	<p>I don&#8217;t think Dewan Negara is elected based on royalty blood, but at the discretion of the YDMM Agong upon advice. There&#8217;s supposed to be 2 from each state in Malaysia, and then a few more people who represent certain interests and minority groups. </p>
	<p>The reason Dewan Negara is actually weaker than Dewan Rakyat is because DR is officially elected by the people, and therefore represents the voice of the people. I think this system actually makes more sense rather than giving DN more power, seeing as they were appointed rather than elected.
</p>
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		<title>by: mypapit</title>
		<link>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-87</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cyrix.blogsome.com/2005/12/13/uk-malaysia-government-takes-all/#comment-87</guid>
					<description>Well, in Malaysia there was time when the King has the absolute power to deny the law from being passed by refusing to sign it. But that was changed in 1980s when the parliament amend the constitution. The law will be enacted withing 60 days even when the King refuse to sign it (correct me with the numbers)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, in Malaysia there was time when the King has the absolute power to deny the law from being passed by refusing to sign it. But that was changed in 1980s when the parliament amend the constitution. The law will be enacted withing 60 days even when the King refuse to sign it (correct me with the numbers)
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